Forum Activity for @Mark Allan

My budget is painfully low as I've yet to make a decent chocolate and don't want to get in deep until I prove that I can turn out something edible. I can make confections that are good, but a plain bar, either dark or milk, is too bitter.

This weekend I reset my process to Chocolate Alchemy's method of using a Champion juicer to help filter out more of the shell. Will see how that goes. I'm not sure how this process could be made faster, as it's way too inefficient to ever think of going commercial with it. I am thinking I will try cracking the beans before putting them in the forced air roaster. That way more of the shell should blow off in the 15 minute roast plus 10 minute cool down. The fan removes loose shells.

I'm still hoping to make a breakthrough and experimenting with different aspects, but the beans I buy from the local market, as described in a different thread, are not fermented sufficiently. I'm still waiting for a neighbor to come up with properly fermented beans but trying to improve on the market beans in the meantime.

just for giggles, i did a quick ebay search for hammer mills, and a few smaller pieces of gear did show up - caveat: i've never directly used any of the pilot pieces of equipment that are presently listed, so i can't speak to them directly, but there were a few there for less than $500 - i've no idea of your budget, but it could be that it's inexpensive enough to enable a 'try it and see what happens' scenario

Thanks again, Sebastian

Yes, though I could never get a tech spec on the grind mesh range of a Kitchenaid grain mill, I realized it probably was not sufficient to grinding 200 mesh as looks like the max size for cocoa powder. Now I am wondering if the espresso setting on a higher end coffee grinder would work well enough, though I have my doubts.

I have an inquiry for this machine as to the mesh range, but don't have high hopes. I did a search for 'sugar hammer mill for sale' but have not found much yet.

Thanks,

Mark C

your cocoa powder will never dissolve in ice cream - what you need to do is get a sufficiently small particle size that you can't see the individual pieces. commercial cocoa powders are hammer milled down to a very fine particle size (< 8 um). i'm not sure what attachments are available for a kitchen aid, but i'd be surprised if there was an off the shelf solution via that route (i've been surprised before though!). perhaps look for an old sugar hammer mill - i don't think they're very expensive..

I might have a rare problem in that I extract my own cocoa butter using a screw press. The machine serves the purpose of making chocolate. The problem I am left with is doing something with the cocoa solids it removes.

The solids crumble into flakes, which I can grind down a bit using the wet grinder. I just add about two cups at a time to the grinder and run it about 20 minutes. At that point it is fine enough to bake with or use in making chocolate syrup, but not fine enough to mix into liquids, or in this particular case, ice cream.

A local dairy would like to give me the business of producing cocoa powder, but it must be fine enough to dissolve in their ice cream mix. According to the manager, the cocoa I produce is too coarse and shows up grainy in the ice cream. I am not sure what particle size you would find in say, Hershey's, but apparently I am not there.

Does anyone know of any economical solution for this? We have a Kitchenaid stand mixer and I've been looking at the grain mill which makes flour from grains, but I don't know if that would grind it fine enough or not. If not that mill, would any other commercially available mill work?

Thanks,

Mark C

Hi Adrienne,

Thanks for thinking it is cool! Yes, I make it with really tasty white chocolate about 34% cocoa butter. What do you mean by you don't know if this end too well?

Cheers,

Bill

I just went on your site and that is cool

I don't make chocolate but eat it

you may need a very good tasting white chocolate bar or one with much cocoa butter

I don't know this end too well

Hi Everyone,

I am a chocolate newbie but find chocolate production and chocolate mold making a creative interest that is rewarding when your idea comes to fruition especially if it puts a smile on someone's face and makes them feel good eating the chocolate.

With some trial & error I found some luck making white chocolate lithophanes that look stunning. If anyone is interested, I would be happy to collaborate in some fashion. My site is www.chocopic.com and I have presented at the Miami Fine Food, Beverage & Chocolate Show held last March.

I am in the Miami area and will travel as a consultant to get you started doing this. My problem was tempering the white chocolate as I was getting inconsistent results even with a tempering machine ;-(

Attached is a white chocolate lithophane of a jaguar (the darkness and lightness is determined by the chocolate thickness). All lithophanes rely on the material's translucent properties which white chocolate possesses.

I look forward to hearing from you more experienced chocolatiers and would smile if I could make chocolate my livelihood.

Let's network somehow.

Sincerely,

Bill Miller

Thanks for your info. I can't wait to give it a try (and taste)!

A cremino is just a 3-layer stack of white, milk and dark chocolategianduja. Some chefs vary the type of nuts, but traditional Italian Cremini are normally done with hazelnuts. A gianduja is normally 60% chocolate and 40% nut paste.

Does anyone know where I can find a recipe for "cremini" or "cremino?" I've seen a photo of it on the Pernigotti website and I'veheard that it's wonderful, but I'm not having any luck with a recipe.

ADM has a big ol' factory right there.... Callebaut 811 is about as generic and ubiquitous as they come however, if your supplier doesn't have it, almost any other one will... Clasen's only been making chocolate for a very short time.

I have been using Callebaut 811NV for most of my dark chocolates. My current supplier has discontinued carrying it and has suggested something I am completely unfamiliar with . . . Clasen Geneva Dark Chocolate.

Is anyone familiar with how the two might compare?

Anyone have any other suggestions that might be available in our area (east central Wisconsin) that would not require shipping?

Thank You

Kim

Thanks Michael - I guess it's always possible to catch staff on a bad day (everyone's human). I tried a lot of their bean to bar about a year ago and am keen to see how it has come along (and have been asked to pick up some pralines as well). It is a bit out of the way, but I have a very understanding wife

The reception at rue de la Roquette was pretentious and haughty. Yes, I know it is for everyone to play the game, especially because the chocolate is very good (although the choice is not huge and the price is more than the other shops mentioned). The building is very interesting and probably should not be missed for those of us in the chocolate life, but the showroom is very small and the factory floor can only be glimpsed at from thick windows. Please go and report back, I hope your experience is good, it, should be, after all nobody just stumbles onto M. Ducasse's it must be searched out.

Anything in particular you didn't enjoy about Ducasse's? I'm heading over for a couple of weeks soon and its one of the places I plan on stopping at.

Thank you for the kind response. I've been to a few of your recommendations and they were wonderful. On this trip we were pressed for time but managed to see a few places including:

Francois Pralus 35 Rue Rambuteau, 75004,Chocolatier Servant 30 Rue d'Auteuil 75016, A La Mre de Famille 35 Rue du Faubourg Montmartre 75009and Le Chocolat Alain Ducasse.

I've posted some snapshots of Ducasse's for you to see but I'm afraid we didn't enjoy the visit much and the trip was only saved by the very enjoyable Beauveau covered market (market Aligre), Metro Bastille.

On that side of town is Jaques Genin (chocolate and pastries),L'eclair de Genie (eclairs by Christophe Adam previously of Fauchon),Pain de Sucre (pastries). I have tried the first and plan on trying the other two later this year.

In terms of candies, Fouquet is supposed to be interesting, but I haven't been before.
lEtoile dOr is on the other side of town and stocks a number of different chocolates and candies from around France which you can't get elsewhere is Paris.

Other chocolatiers I have enjoyed are Patrick Roger, La Maison du Chocolat, Jean-Charles Rochoux and Michel Cluizel. There are plenty of others as well worth trying.

I have a free afternoon in Paris with my children and we want to go candy and chocolate shopping! I'm not sure where we will start out from but hope to see La Manufacture de Chocolat Alain Ducass at 40 Rue de la Roquette, 75011 at some point of our little adventure. Anything special to look for while we're there? Also are there other chocolate or candy shops in this area that anyone recommends?

I currently wrap my bars in paper backed gold foil, and then wrap them in a paper wrapper. The final product looks and feels wonderful, but it takes a lot of time to do this.My bars are 2 oz, 2.25" x 5.25" by .375".

I have wondered about other wrapping solutions. I see some bars out there are wrapped in a gold plastic tube, it looks like they are mylar? and are heat closed at one end. I wonder if any of you do this, and you have any pro and cons to tell me? Also, I have not found a source for these sleeves or tubes. Do you know where I might buy such tubes from?

I am also open to other packaging ideas if you have any to suggest.

Thank you!

Mack

I tried grinding the sugar first but it takes a while. I usually add the sugar + cocoa butter first, leaving some to add at the end, then we add the couverture/cocoa powder. We have a low GI chocolate bar made with Sweetwell sweetener and it works

Good luck with the coconut sugar, keep updating! !

Hi Mark and Daniela,

I bought a Spectra 11 based on the improvements made to the newest model.

I will try the sugar and cacao butter and add the powder last as the way to keep the temperature down, and I can also point a fan at it too if needed.

I am excited to produce chocolate with the silky mouthfeel and the low glycemic of coconut sugar! And in doing all the research I found myself getting interested in nibs or beans in the future so I can be beans to bar. All in due time of course.

Never heard of that one sounds nice!

Excellent news then.

Now I go online and figure out what machine to buy.

If you have any pro or cons for which machines I would be interested to know.

Thank you Mark, you have helped me a lot!

Mack

Hi Mack,

Likely it could be achieved. Add the cocoa butter and keep the fastening screw kind of loose. Monitor it for the first batch, testing every 5-10 minutes, to see if it rises above.

Failing that, try just the sugar and cocoa butter first, add the chocolate liqueur after the sugar is refined.

-Mark

Hi again, well, a temperature of 140F presents a new problem. I am making "raw" chocolate bars ( I understand raw is questioned... ). I need to keep the temp at or below 115F. Do you think this is achievable if I add the cacao butter?

In thanking you again,

Mack

No, there is no specific heating element, but... the grinding action will keep the temp pretty warm. Tighten down the wheels with the adjustable screw and the liquid will heat up depending on the viscosity. The thicker the mass is, the higher the temperature it will achieve. For this reason, I don't add the final dose of cocoa butter until I feel like it has had a sufficient time to conche. Once you add sufficient cocoa butter, the viscosity and heat will drop.

Before I had access to cocoa butter, my batches would get to 160F while grinding. Now I try to take it easy on the machine by adding some butter up front, which keeps the mass below 140F.

Wow, this is great news Mark. A few hours of conching I can do. Depending on how noisy the process is, I might be able to let it run a day and get those conching effects too.

One more question: Does the machine have a heating system to keep the chocolate warm?

Thank you again!

Sorry, no, what I meant was, you don't have to pre-grind the sugar. Add it to the chocolate, right out of the bag. Where I live, the sugar is even more coarse than the sugar in the USA, but I still just add it straight...to the chocolate.

Conching aside, you can refine the sugar to a smooth texture in a few hours, but I usually let mine run for a day or two, in the garage, to try and accomplish a "conche".

Hi Mark, thank you for replying. I had never considered just putting the only sugar in grinder. I want to make sure I understand what you are writing. I think you are saying I can put sugar in the grinder, dry, and let it run? That would be fantastic. If on the other hand this is not the case, then my next question is how long would I have to run a batch of chocolate (in other words wet) before the sugar crystals would become undetectable?

What I am trying to avoid at this point is running the machine for 48 hours. I work out of my home, and that would be disruptive.

If you are looking to keep your investment low, try a wet grinder from Premier. They are sold on Amazon for just north of $200. I have used the "Wonder" table top grinder for about a year, with no problems, even after a lot of abuse. That version is 1.5L and I have made as much as 8 lbs at once with it. They also have a tilting, 2L grinder for about $25 more. My guesstimate is that the 2L could make 10lbs at once. I can run tell a difference in texture between six hours and 48 hours after I grind, but I also don't notice any coarseness. The only mod I would make is to make some kind of window screen enclosure so that you can keep the lid off and get some airflow going.

Final note, I just dump table sugar in the machine and let it do the milling. You will a little crunching for a few minutes while the wheels crush the sugar, but not for long.

if need any table top or small customized machine im ready to do one for you

t'm specialist chocolate machine more than 150 models designed till today

Well at first, we refined the sugar ourselves with a good processing machine, it worked but the chocolate needed a looong time to decrease the particle size due to the sugar crystals.

Good luck !

Hi Daniela, yeah, I bet the starch had a big impact on the conching machine! I tried using a confectioners powdered sugar with tapioca starch to see what would happen. It became very thick and I had to increase the cacao butter to make it useable. The product itself tempered and molded well though, and I am considering using it temporarily until I can resolve my next step. It tastes great, and has a velvety mouthfeel. I also tried the coconut nectar which did not seize up the chocolate but it had a strong flavor that I don't prefer.

I work out of a licensed home kitchen, so the conching is not practical yet, but is clearly the right solution. I read on the internet that there is confectioners sugar without starch in Europe, so maybe I will need to source that from there.

I read the conching article, very interesting, thank you. As I read the article it made me wonder if I can find a way to refine just the sugar, but by the end it seems like I would run into the same problems.

Thank you!

We're tried different brands of refined sugar, unfortunately we did had an accident once with one brand of sugar that contained starch (even though they said it was "pure sugar") and our Santha basically overheated and created a big smoky mess and the machine was, of course, unusable after that. About the noise, it's not that bad, we conch the chocolate in the shop, right in front of the customers so they can see And well, the sugar we're currently using it's made in Costa Rica.

You can read this article on Chocolate Alchemy about conching, if you haven't already. http://www.chocolatealchemy.com/conchingrefining.php

Hi Daniela,

I apologize for the long delay in answering. I would love to know the source of your "fine sugar"!

I am going to try making some bars with Coconut nectar and see how that works. I am worried about moisture issues, but will find out if this works. My research on sugar mills is that they are either very expensive in the $5K and up but available in the USA, or are $600 and available in China or India where I guess they still have cottage industry and thus supply this kind of equipment. I still hesitate, I know sugar is gummy, and will it gum up the machines? Conching seems a good answer, but I am not in a situation where I can do that due to noise and such.

Thank you!

Mack

Hi Mack, we use the Santha for conching small quantities of chocolate (3.5kgs/batch aprox), it homogenizes the mixture, lowers the particle size and I have noticed changes in flavor and texture. We recently came upon a very fine sugar so we were able to lower our conching time but we're looking for a sugar mill to make it ourselves

We have made chocolate from an already conched chocolate (like 70%, just to add different flavors) and chocolate from fine powder and the Santha works fine.

Hi all, first I want to really thank you for all the wonderful cacao wisdom you share here. I read your blogs, and have slowly figured out how to make my chocolate bars thanks to you. It is time to get some more advice as to next steps in my chocolate bar creation.

I am currently selling my bars in one local natural food grocery. I sell about 10 dozen bars a month there. I wish to add more retail outlets, and need to send samples. Before I do this I wonder what "the next step" in making them more delicious and more marketable might be?

So, first off, what I am doing is making them out of "raw" powder (debatable I know), cacao butter and coconut sugar. My first concern is the texture is somewhat coarse because the coconut sugar is so granular. I do grind it in a magic bullet first, but it is still too coarse, especially in the 75% where the sugar makes up so much of the volume. Is a conche the best next item to buy? If I understand the blogs here, the conch will grind down the sugar and other particles, and in that process also volatize off some undesirable flavors?

My system of melting and tempering is ok, though it is manual. Still I can make and temper a 4 pound batch easily. Is the conche the machine I need??? And if so, I need one that can deal with at 4 pounds at a time. That volume will grow. So suggestions as to what brand and model would be appreciated? On the other hand, perhaps that is not the machine I need? Also, I wonder since the powder is so fine, it is almost dust, am I conching basically just the sugar? If that is the case, would I do better finding a mill for the sugar? What else will the conching do for my chocolate? Also, I am still a small business, run in my home kitchen, with a state license, etc. Still, if it is noisy and running for days, that is a big impact. What would be the quieter brand of conche, assuming conching is the solution.

So, the coarseness is an issue. Is it pointless to conche chocolate that is made from fine powder, or will it improve the taste as well as the sugar texture?

Thank you!

Mack

Grinding for a long time is just that. To conche you need to apply heat. A heat gun at 65-70 degrees for about 8 hours removes any volatiles and so improves flavor. I think there is video of this on this site. You may want to think about the end result ie. what is your desired outcome ? Then choose the right variations of temperature and time as well the actions you would need to get the right flavor and texture [mouthfeel] you desire.

Using a fridge to cool is a not advised as the temperature is too low, try a wine cooler. Maybe try to cool for a longer period.

Clement

Hello dear chocolatiers!

So our venture with chocolate is well underway and we are now in the process of dialling in our recipes for our final product.

Question #1

We are using a Cocoatown ECGC-12SL (which is running great!) and we are wondering; How long we should be grinding it?

We are using raw nibs and grinding for 24-28 hrs with great texture results but there is still quite a bit of bitter (tannin??). From my research after grinding many manufacturers would now conch for up to 4 days to let some of these bitter compounds evaporate. If we just kept grinding for an additional day or so would we come up with a less bitter product? We like some bitterness but we need to reduce it a bit.


Question #2

After tempering (which we do by hand on granite). We then pour into our molds and place in the fridge (because we seem to get untempered chocolate when we just leave the molds out to harden, any advice on if we can do something so that we dont need to refrigerate would be great). After about 15 minutes in the fridge we pull them out and remove them from the molds. This is where we are having some trouble keeping the bars from breaking. Is it because we are trying to remove them while cold? How can we make sure the chocolate comes out easily from the polycarbonate molds??

Any and all advice greatly appreciated.

Gratitude.

Evan and Brianna

Thanks Jon. The amount of time seemed normal and I usually do check the temperature manually - it was right at 88 (Dark Chocolate). I've used it a few times since then and the problem hasn't recurred. I now use a portable air conditioner that I locate right next to the Delta so I'm hoping that it was either a humidity or an over-seeding problem.

When this next happens, could you double check the chocolate temperature with a different thermometer? When this happens, does it seem like the melting stage reached its final temperature more rapidly than normal?

I've seen my (very old) Rev II machine sometimes show strange temperature readings and then go to the next steps in the tempering process on the basis of what seem to me to be transient measurement errors. I've seen my system declare that tempering was finished because of a transient low reading, caused by a bad connection to the temperature sensor.

-Jon